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	<title>Comments on: What we have here is a failure to communicate</title>
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	<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/</link>
	<description>What do we want from Internet-age government? Wouldn&#039;t it be better if...</description>
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		<title>By: Simon Banton</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Banton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-7</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/ldw2004&quot;&gt;Local Democracy Week in Warwickshire&lt;/a&gt; actually implements a key element of what I proposed in my initial post - a generic &#039;Ask an Question&#039; forum.

Sadly, the week in question was two weeks ago and they aren&#039;t now accepting any more questions.

I guess that amounts to a glass that was half full, but kicked over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/ldw2004">Local Democracy Week in Warwickshire</a> actually implements a key element of what I proposed in my initial post &#8211; a generic &#8216;Ask an Question&#8217; forum.</p>
<p>Sadly, the week in question was two weeks ago and they aren&#8217;t now accepting any more questions.</p>
<p>I guess that amounts to a glass that was half full, but kicked over.</p>
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		<title>By: AndyL</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-6</guid>
		<description>Just following up I have had a look at &lt;URL:http://www.consultations.gov.uk&gt; and found out that it is a broken (as designed?) site - it doesn&#039;t work with my browser of choice (Firefox).  I get the first page of consultations but no matter how much I click that &quot;Next 20&quot; link I still get back the first page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just following up I have had a look at <url: <a href="http://www.consultations.gov.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.consultations.gov.uk> and found out that it is a broken (as designed?) site &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t work with my browser of choice (Firefox).  I get the first page of consultations but no matter how much I click that &#8220;Next 20&#8243; link I still get back the first page.</url:></p>
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		<title>By: AndyL</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>AndyL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Oct 2004 20:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-5</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with the point William made about the ID card debacle.  I purposely emailed a personal submission separate from STAND because I felt it would be given more consideration that way.  

Since then we have discovered that the consultation probably made little or no difference to the end result.  This attitude of not seeming to listen still persists today if there is any truth in the stories I have heard about the participant questionnaire for those who tried the pilot.

I think a moderated blog-like system would have be en better for getting more qualitive comments but does little to gauge quantitive matters like how many people agree/disagree with a position.

Certainly I feel that there needs to be both types of feedback when it comes to consultations.

However it doesn&#039;t matter what systems are in place if people end up with the impression that the consultation was just PR and did not have any effect on the results.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with the point William made about the ID card debacle.  I purposely emailed a personal submission separate from STAND because I felt it would be given more consideration that way.  </p>
<p>Since then we have discovered that the consultation probably made little or no difference to the end result.  This attitude of not seeming to listen still persists today if there is any truth in the stories I have heard about the participant questionnaire for those who tried the pilot.</p>
<p>I think a moderated blog-like system would have be en better for getting more qualitive comments but does little to gauge quantitive matters like how many people agree/disagree with a position.</p>
<p>Certainly I feel that there needs to be both types of feedback when it comes to consultations.</p>
<p>However it doesn&#8217;t matter what systems are in place if people end up with the impression that the consultation was just PR and did not have any effect on the results.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Simpkins</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Simpkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I created this site http://www.consultationprocess.org/ to post documents such as the ID card consultation process as a blog, making it commentable and linkable down to the paragraph level.

In itself it acts as nothing more than a source for the document, i wanted to monitor the online conversation around the document using comments/trackback and blogs.

At the moment this is very small and quiet, but if we can encourage more people to move the dialog into linkable, searchable online spaces and source the documents from a single, linkable and accessible source then we might help create a better overall conversation.

mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I created this site <a href="http://www.consultationprocess.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.consultationprocess.org/</a> to post documents such as the ID card consultation process as a blog, making it commentable and linkable down to the paragraph level.</p>
<p>In itself it acts as nothing more than a source for the document, i wanted to monitor the online conversation around the document using comments/trackback and blogs.</p>
<p>At the moment this is very small and quiet, but if we can encourage more people to move the dialog into linkable, searchable online spaces and source the documents from a single, linkable and accessible source then we might help create a better overall conversation.</p>
<p>mark.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Brown</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Th *genuine* engagement of civil servants in online fora was what I argued was most important in FIPR&#039;s response to the government&#039;s e-democracy consultation in 2002: http://www.fipr.org/eDemocracy/FIPR.html

There are a small number of really good examples. Simon Watkin from the Home Office and Nigel Hickson from the DTI both must have spent many man-months engaging with the ukcrypto mailing list, as frustrating as that can sometimes be! And I hope both would agree that government policy actually was improved as a result (although not nearly as far as we would have liked).

You can see their hundreds of posts in the ukcrypto archive:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Simon+Watkin&quot;&amp;btnG=Google+Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;lr=&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Nigel+Hickson&quot;&amp;btnG=Search</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Th *genuine* engagement of civil servants in online fora was what I argued was most important in FIPR&#8217;s response to the government&#8217;s e-democracy consultation in 2002: <a href="http://www.fipr.org/eDemocracy/FIPR.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fipr.org/eDemocracy/FIPR.html</a></p>
<p>There are a small number of really good examples. Simon Watkin from the Home Office and Nigel Hickson from the DTI both must have spent many man-months engaging with the ukcrypto mailing list, as frustrating as that can sometimes be! And I hope both would agree that government policy actually was improved as a result (although not nearly as far as we would have liked).</p>
<p>You can see their hundreds of posts in the ukcrypto archive:<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Simon+Watkin&quot;&#038;btnG=Google+Search" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Simon+Watkin&quot;&#038;btnG=Google+Search</a><br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;lr=&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Nigel+Hickson&quot;&#038;btnG=Search" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&#038;lr=&#038;ie=UTF-8&#038;q=site%3Achiark.greenend.org.uk+&quot;Nigel+Hickson&quot;&#038;btnG=Search</a></p>
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		<title>By: Alan Burkitt-Gray</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Burkitt-Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Interesting that you write that &quot;the electorate are becoming ever more isolated from those in power&quot;, when you could equally say that those in power are becoming ever more isolated from the electorate. Fog in Channel: Continent cut off. 

A</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that you write that &#8220;the electorate are becoming ever more isolated from those in power&#8221;, when you could equally say that those in power are becoming ever more isolated from the electorate. Fog in Channel: Continent cut off. </p>
<p>A</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://idealgovernment.com/2004/09/what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate/comment-page-1/#comment-1</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://what_we_have_here_is_a_failure_to_communicate#comment-1</guid>
		<description>I think STAND had a similarly frustrating experience when over 5000 comments on ID cards were treated as a single protest (even though some comments via Stand were pro ID cards).

And FIPR gave signs of frustration about the consultation process in what seemed to me its excellent and thoroughly constructive response on NHS confidentiality (I&#039;d better dig that out and cross post it here). 

What we seem to be seeing is that when on line consultation really starts to work as a medium, politicians and policymaking officials (with rare and noble exceptions) cant cope with unattenuated messages. They aren&#039;t ready for it and give little sign of wanting it. 

Well, that&#039;s a problem in real life but not a problem for this &quot;ideal government&quot; exercise. Because what we&#039;re trying to do here is simply to state what we want. And the further the present state is from what common sense people suggest is ideal, the stronger the case we can make on 4 Nov. 

One part of what we need to articulate is &quot;what do we want from an e-enabled process of political engagement?&quot;

Accurate and thorough information behind policy decisions (and where are the limits eg about nuclear safety, preparations for terrorism)?

Considered answers to hard one-on-one questions?

Results of online consultations or lobbying exercises to be visibly taken into account?

Ways to be sure that &quot;Gordon Brown&quot; is *the* Gordon Brown?

There&#039;s so much activity in this area - iCan, directgov, Hansard Society, MPs blogs, Parliament Live TV, theyworkforyou and faxyourmp....but can we get a wish list of *what we want* from e-enabled political engagement, based on practical situations where possible?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think STAND had a similarly frustrating experience when over 5000 comments on ID cards were treated as a single protest (even though some comments via Stand were pro ID cards).</p>
<p>And FIPR gave signs of frustration about the consultation process in what seemed to me its excellent and thoroughly constructive response on NHS confidentiality (I&#8217;d better dig that out and cross post it here). </p>
<p>What we seem to be seeing is that when on line consultation really starts to work as a medium, politicians and policymaking officials (with rare and noble exceptions) cant cope with unattenuated messages. They aren&#8217;t ready for it and give little sign of wanting it. </p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s a problem in real life but not a problem for this &#8220;ideal government&#8221; exercise. Because what we&#8217;re trying to do here is simply to state what we want. And the further the present state is from what common sense people suggest is ideal, the stronger the case we can make on 4 Nov. </p>
<p>One part of what we need to articulate is &#8220;what do we want from an e-enabled process of political engagement?&#8221;</p>
<p>Accurate and thorough information behind policy decisions (and where are the limits eg about nuclear safety, preparations for terrorism)?</p>
<p>Considered answers to hard one-on-one questions?</p>
<p>Results of online consultations or lobbying exercises to be visibly taken into account?</p>
<p>Ways to be sure that &#8220;Gordon Brown&#8221; is *the* Gordon Brown?</p>
<p>There&#8217;s so much activity in this area &#8211; iCan, directgov, Hansard Society, MPs blogs, Parliament Live TV, theyworkforyou and faxyourmp&#8230;.but can we get a wish list of *what we want* from e-enabled political engagement, based on practical situations where possible?</p>
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